Hardware setup for Hall sensor/LED17/Bosch Mod 139-PWM Idle

[malloy1]

Currently running:

-'65 122 with a B21F/M41 (stocked, not modified normally aspirated engine [4-cyl 2100cc])
-LC-1 WBO2
-MS V2.2 running MSnS-extra (24s13) fuel only (running electric fan control)- tuning with MT2.25
-original '79 Bosch iginition setup from a 240
-Bosch 21lbs EFI injectors
-Volvo 850 Bosch TPS
-EGO crossover is set to 2.75v (AFR 15.4:1)

Planning on switching to spark first using currently installed and running 024s13 code. Using LED 17 as spark output. Then, upgrading to 029q2, and running the closed loop idle control. Have a couple of questions.

Ignition Control Using LED17 as Spark Output (Hall Effect Distributor and a Bosch Mod 139 Ignitor)

I’ve been looking at the diagrams, threads, and the MSnS-E website stuff to try and configure how to set MS for ignition control using a hall effect distributor, Bosch Mod 139, and LED 17. I think I have everything figured out (See layout below), but a couple of things that I have questions about, can someone confirm it right or wrong.

1) Jumper DB 37 pin 24 to pin 28 using a 370 ohm resistor.
2) Run a wire from DB 37 pin 25 to the distributor signal out pin.
3) Run a wire from a switched power supply (powered when cranking also-like MS main relay) to the distributor +12 volt pin with a 10 ohm resistor inline
4) Run a wire from the distributor ground pin to ground
5) Jumper X11 to XG1 (See question 1below)
6) Jumper D8 diode, if present (See question 2 below)
7) Jumper right-hand side of resistor R23 to negative leg of LED 17 using a 1K ohm resistor
Jumper negative leg of LED 17 (or the collector leg [3] of transistor Q9 [ZTX450]-> it shouldn’t matter) to DB 37 to DB 37 pin 36.
9) Run a wire from DB 37 pin 36 to Bosch Mod 139 pin 6
10) Run a wire from Bosch Mod 139 pin 1 to negative side of coil
11) Run a wire from a switched power supply (powered when cranking also-like MS main relay) to Bosch Mod 139 pin 4 and positive side of coil
12) Run a wire from Bosch Mod 139 pin 2 to ground
13) Deal with the setup values


Questions:

1) There’s a jumper between XG1 and XG2? Can I remove it, or leave it in place?
2) The D8 diode is present, do I remove it and solder in a jumper in its’ place?
3) I have a seven pin connector for the Bosch Module 0 280 100 139, and pin 2, 5, and 7 are shielded. Do any of the wires need to be shielded?

PWM Idle Control Using a Bosch IAC motor

This sounds simple enough, so I need to do the following to get a 2-wire Bosch IAC motor working.

1) Replace Q5 transistor with a TIP122 transistor (needs to be installed remotely to the case somewhere with a mica insulator and grease.)
2) Pin 30 (DB37) becomes the ground to one of the IAC motor pins.
3) The other IAC motor pin needs a switched 12 volt (I assume it doesn't matter which pin on the IAC motor is + or -)
4) Upgrade MSnS-e code to 029Q2, and setup the .ini file to turn on pwm idle
5) Deal with the setup values

Electric Fan Relay Using X2 output

I’m currently using DB 37 pin 25 (via X11) as my output to the electric fan relay because I used X11, X12, X13 to mount the transistor to run the relay ground. It fit there very nicely, and the transistor was secure in the case. Now I need to move it (because I need X11 for spark control), can I use X8, X9, X10 to mount the electric fan relay transistor and run a jumper to X12 or X13? I mean, do X8, X9, X10 go anywhere that will fire something or cause havoc??


I hope it makes sense to someone

Thanks-

Paul

[Keithg]

A couple of comments/suggestions.

Do I understand that you are currently running a bosch 139 module to control ignition? If so, to connect it up is much simpler than what you have described. In a functioning, stock Bosch ignition install, the hall is powered from the bosch module. Just retain that. If you cut the lead that runs from the hall sensor to the module and run the hall output to DB37 pin 24 and the module input (pin 6) of the ign module to DB37 pin 25.
Use this schematic for the bosch hall sensor input, though. It has the 12V pullup internal and does not require you to connect that resistor between pin 28 and pin 24 (cleaner install). The RHS of D9 is a 12V source identical to pin 28. It was just easier for me to do this on the board as opposed to the plug. You will remove the XG1-XG2 jumper in this case. In this schematic, the D8 diode is replaced with a 1.3K-2K resistor. I cut the wire at the plug to teh ignition module and used a 2 conductor shielded cable to feed the hall signal and ignition signal to and from the ignition module. From my experience, I was able to get a more reliable spark with MS dwell control (in your case, using a 124 module would allow you to run dwell control in MS)

[url]http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra ... -neg12.jpg[/url]

X8,9,10 seem to be only connected to the header, so, they seem to be available. X11-14 are pads that allow you to connect outputs or inputs through the DB37 plug.

[url]http://www.bgsoflex.com/v22/megasquirt_ShemV2.2.pdf[/url]

For PWMidle, polarity is important. You need to connect it such that turning it 'on' opens the valve more. If it is the 516 Bosch valve, keep in mind that it is open at 0DC, closed at 25% and is designed to regulate at 40-50%. THis valve seems to work best at 50Hz (idlefreq setting of 200) so that it has 0.5% DC steps as it tries to regulate.

Also, why do you have the EGO switchover point above 14.7? If you use AFR targets, you can have it drive EGO correction to any particular AFR value you want to.

HTH,

KeithG

[malloy1]

Keith-

I'm not running a ignition setup now using the Bosch Mod 139 unit. The stock Bosch setup I'm running now is an old vacuum advance 2-wire electronic distributor from a '79 Volvo 240 (it's installed in my old '65 Volvo 122). Runs fine, but my brother needs a complete ignition setup, so I was going to give him the setup from my 122 and upgrade my MS to control ignition.

The Bosch Mod 139, and the 3-wire hall effect distributor is parts that I'm gathering up to do the MSnS-E ignition upgrade. The Volvo guys were saying that the Bosch Mod 139 was the way to go because the Mod 124 were blowing up because of the dwell control (maybe that was some old posts over on turbobrick discussion group-maybe explains why they didn't recommend the VB921 instead of the Mod 124/139). Now it seems that the Mod 124 is the better way to go, but I already have the Mod 139 unit in hand.

Paul

[Keithg]

Ok, I think I understamd, now.

Depending on what you want to do, you can still wire it as it would have been in a stock install to keep the wiring to the MS simpler. If you need a wiring diagram for a 139/124 stock instasll showing how they powered the hall sensor:

This one shows a 139 module. They call it a 'hall effect module' here. The hall sensor is connected to pins 3,5,6 of the module. You can intercept the wire running from the hall 'o' to pin6 as I wrote previously. Just ignore the pulse amplifier. It was used on early modules to drive the tach and othewr stuff. Pin 7 is the tach output.
http://townsendimports.com/Web/electric ... ignwir.htm

This one shows a 124 module (part # 146 is teh ignition module. Note that they connect pins 5 and 6 together as an input to the ignition module)
http://townsendimports.com/Web/electric ... wirfac.htm

KeithG

Posted by email.

[Keithg]

Ok, I think I understand, now.

Depending on what you want to do, you can still wire it as it would have been in a stock install to keep the wiring to the MS simpler. If you need a wiring diagram for a 139/124 stock install showing how they powered the hall sensor:

This one shows a 139 module. They call it a 'hall effect module' here. The hall sensor is connected to pins 3,5,6 of the module. You can intercept the wire running from the hall 'o' to pin6 as I wrote previously. Just ignore the pulse amplifier. It was used on early modules to drive the tach and othewr stuff. Pin 7 is the tach output.
http://townsendimports.com/Web/electric ... ignwir.htm

This one shows a 124 module (part # 146 is the ignition module. Note that they connect pins 5 and 6 together as an input to the ignition module)
http://townsendimports.com/Web/electric ... wirfac.htm

KeithG

[malloy1]

Keith-

So does the +12v of the RHS of D9 go to DB37 pin 24? I think everything else makes sense.

Paul

[Keithg]

No, It connects to the hole that used to be the R10 resistor just as it is shown in the diagram I linked to.

Posted by email.

[malloy1]

Keith-

I think I figured out the right layout that you were discussing. I hope you meant DB 37 pin 36 when you said "the module input (pin 6) of the ign module to DB37 pin 25"

I redid my first description with what I figured out from your discussion, and redid the layout. I hope I got it. I like to have things figured out before I start something.

Ignition Control Using LED17 as Spark Output (Hall Effect Distributor and a Bosch Mod 139 Ignitor)

Mod to Megasquirt controller/distributor/Bosch 139 Mod:

1) Run a wire from distributor signal to DB 37 pin 24
2) Remove R10 (resistor), D5 (diode), and D8 (diode or a jumper)
3) Replace D8 with a 1.3K to 2.0K ohm resistor
4) Jumper the RHS hole of D5 to XG1
5) Jumper the RHS of R9 to the bottom hole of R10
6) Jumper right-hand side of resistor R23 to negative leg of LED 17 using a 1K ohm resistor
7) Jumper negative leg of LED 17 (or the collector leg [3] of transistor Q9 [ZTX450]-> it shouldn’t matter) to DB 37 pin 36.
Run a wire from DB 37 pin 36 to Bosch Mod 139 pin 6
9) Run a wire from Bosch Mod 139 pin 1 to negative side of coil
10) Run a wire from a switched power supply (powered when cranking also-like MS main relay) to Bosch Mod 139 pin 4 and positive side of coil
11) Run a wire from Bosch Mod 139 pin 2 to ground
12) Run a wire from Bosch Mod 139 pin 3 to negative pin of the distributor
13) Run a wire from Bosch Mod 139 pin 5 to positive pin of the distributor
14) Deal with the setup values


Paul

[Keithg]

You got it! Except that you use pin 36 only if you are using a V3 board, with a V2.2 board, pin 36 is not connected to anything and you use pin 25 (connected to X11) for the output and pin 24 for the input. The v3 board is already configured like schematic 2 except that it does not have a pullup for the sinking hall sensor.

V2.2. schematics - scroll through to the DB37 plug. - pin 36 is not connected to anything.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/v22/megasquirt_ShemV2.2.pdf

KeithG

Posted by email.

[malloy1]

Keith-

That makes sense. No output to pin 36 from inside of the box. X11 allows an output via pin 25.

Just to keep it straight, I should change step 7 & 8 from:

7) Jumper negative leg of LED 17 (or the collector leg [3] of transistor Q9 [ZTX450]-> it shouldn’t matter) to DB 37 pin 36.

Run a wire from DB 37 pin 36 to Bosch Mod 139 pin 6

to

7) Jumper negative leg of LED 17 (or the collector leg [3] of transistor Q9 [ZTX450]-> it shouldn’t matter) to X11.

Run a wire from DB 37 pin 25 to Bosch Mod 139 pin 6

Cool! Can't wait to actually setting it up.

Thanks-

Paul