Dwell calculations

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Bernard Fife
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Dwell calculations

Post by Bernard Fife »

Hi all,

I have used Bruce's formula for evaluating the dwell period on my ignition, one I had already tuned in the car (http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=63 ... c&start=45).

Bruce's formula (I suppose it *may* have been derived prior to his use of it!) for the time it takes for an inductor to charge up to a certain current (assume t=0, I=0) is:

Code: Select all

T = (-L/R) * ln( 1 - (R * I / E)) 

Where: 

T = time (sec) 
L = inductance (H) 
R = resistance (Ohms) 
E = voltage (Volts) 
(ln is the 'natural logarithm, often available as 'LN' on calculators)
In my case, the values for my 7-pin HEI large cap set-up with red/yellow leads* are:

L = 6.18 mH
R = 0.4 Ohms
E = 12.0 Volts
I = 6.0 Amps

This gives a calculated T of 3.44 milliseconds.

In the car, I found that 3.4 worked, but set it to 3.5 to be sure. At 3.3 or less, I would get misfires, especially under 1000 rpm. So it certainly seems to confirm the theory.

I am now in the process of installing an 8-pin module/distributor and external coil. This external coil has an inductance of 4.285mH and a DC resistance of 0.4 Ohms. So for an initial coil dwell, I will try:

T = (-L/R) * ln( 1 - (R * I / E))

= (-4.285/0.4) * ln (1-[0.4*6.0/12.0])

= -10.7 * ln (0.8)

= 2.39 milliseconds

I will use 2.4msec to start, and let people know how this works out. <update> I ended up using 2.5 milliseconds, which is close enough to the theory!</update>

(Eventually I will add a dwell calculator based on Bruce's formula to the documents, as well as specs for as many coils as I can lay my hands on!)

Lance.
Last edited by Bernard Fife on Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Tortfeaser
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Post by Tortfeaser »

Sorry, nuffie here. How is inductance measured? Is this possible for a punter with a multimeter? CRO? Something else? I haven't seen many coil catalogues with this value listed.
Marc Kelly
MS'd AE82 Toyota Corolla shitta
MSnS-E'd Holden Camira rally car
In Canberra, Australia.
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djandruczyk
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Dwell calculations

Post by djandruczyk »

--- Tortfeaser wrote:
> Sorry, nuffie here. How is inductance measured? Is this possible for a
> punter with a multimeter? CRO? Something else? I haven't seen many coil
> catalogues with this value listed.

The best way that I know of is with an LCR meter
(Inductance/Capacitance/Resistance) meter. A decent sized electronics tool
place would carry them. (NOT radio shack/Fry's)




Dave J. Andruczy


(posted by email)
danimal
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Post by danimal »

fry's sells the Outpost.com #: 4173783

BK Precision: 878A LCR Meter $249

don't know if it's available locally at the store, tho.
Bernard Fife
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Post by Bernard Fife »

The best way that I know of is with an LCR meter (Inductance/Capacitance/Resistance) meter.


Yeah, you can also do it with a scope and a function generator, but these are even more expensive...

Lance.
Dennis240
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Post by Dennis240 »

Tortfeaser,

Here you go, even has warranty

http://www.used-line.com/c4847876s71-BK ... n_875A.htm

$75
Got 2JZ? If not, don't try!!
Tortfeaser
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 6:24 pm
Location: Canberra, Australia.

Post by Tortfeaser »

Bargain. Thanks guys.
Marc Kelly
MS'd AE82 Toyota Corolla shitta
MSnS-E'd Holden Camira rally car
In Canberra, Australia.
randy77zt
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:37 pm

Post by randy77zt »

i installed ms&se in my 77datsun z with 81 zx turbo engine.the oem zxt efi fired a power transistor mounted to the coil bracket.my ms is firing that transistor.i tried about 1.5 ms dwell first and got a misfire at high rpm/boost.it would backfire and surge.its set at 3.7 now and i still have a minor surging feeling under high (10+ psi) boost.might try putting a little more (.5ms) dwell on it.for my application i think a msd 6a cdi box would be a safe bet but i am trying to save money right now.i would have liked to see the original wave form from the oem zxt efi system that fed the power transistor.
zguy36
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Post by zguy36 »

I am currently looking for an aftermarket coil. The specs are given for many coils and I have put their values into your calculator. I am getting large dwell times (4-6ms) for many aftermarket coils. Running a six cylinder at 7000rpm doesn't allow for such long dwell periods. What is recommended as far as chosing a coil in relation to dwell times. Thanks
VolvoPentaMan
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Post by VolvoPentaMan »

I've got 4 VW 1,6FSI coils, got a buddy to measure them for dwell times and energy consumption (A).

The energy consumption goes up, untill 3ms, where it dops STRAIGHT down, then consuming 20Amps. At 1,8ms consumption is about 10A, so we came to the conclusion of running dwell being 1,8ms.

But how to determine CRANKING dwell?
I've tried everything from 1,8ms to 4ms.
Volvo 340DL 2,5L 16valve turbo coming
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