Newbie attempting Custom Harley Davidson (pre-EFI)

[grinnen30]

I am getting ready to start compiling parts for my projects...and plan on utilizing uS. I still have a lot of learning (my eyes are crossed with all of this stuff). I think I have about a 90% solution for all of my needs...but I am actually (oddly enough) having problems understanding all of the ignition stuff and want to run a sanity check on everything.

(PLEASE let me know if any of this is incorrect...and I appreciate your responses)

FI

The plan is to use a standard runner and throttle bodie from an existing FI HD EVO that has been retrofitted to Carbs. This will give me Injectors, TPS, MAP, and IAS. I will need to add O2 sensor, and an engine cylinder temperature guage (in lieu of Engine coolant sensor...I think I can do this for air cooled engines). I don't see a knock sensor option for the uS...am I missing this? Also, since this is a custom, I need to modify my tank to add a fuel pump, fuel level gauge (don't want to run out), and hold the hoses. RPM signal comes from the existing Hall sensor in the existing ignition system. Then the standard relays, circuit breakers/fuses...plus adding the Stepper IAC and FIdle relay (can I do this with an Engine Cylinder Sensor???) That should cover the bulk of the work for FI part...minus all of the work

IGNITION

The stock HD system uses a Hall-sensor and a waste spark during a non-compression stroke. Since the existing rotor has two slots and rotates at 1/2 crank speed, then the coil should be generating a spark every time the sensor hits (RPM)...and generate a spark when needed...and because of the waste spark on the existing system...this should work as is. According to my research on my system, the amount of advance used at starting (0' BTDC) and at 1050-1500 rpm (20' BTDC) and that spark #2 comes 135' after spark #1. So next is just figuring out the rest of the map and tuning it.

Please let me know if I have missed anything!!

Thanks
Ike

[glider_fuel]

I am also waiting for Microsquirt. Planning to convert existing Marelli EFI to uS then do fairly major engine build on a dresser.

Still in research mode until I can get a box.

I have the service manual for my bike and theres lots of good anecdotal stuff in there. I would recommend getting as complete a setup as possible from the donor bike. Wiring harness etc. Access to the shop manual for that bike ought to help a lot for pinouts, and sensor parameters. There's a fair amount of stuff on line. If you grab bits related to a 98 road glide I can help you directly with that.

Modern evo EFI HDs are using a 36 -1 toothed wheel setup notched into the crank/flywheel left side. I think the Twin Cams are doing the same but I'm not sure they are using the same tooth count. The sensor pigtail is visible up front where it interferes with the oil filter. Then theres the "cup" on the cam for cylinder reference. Hall Effect Sensor there.
Also remember that the cylinder firing events are unevenly distributed. Taking RPM/Tach indication from this at low speed is a concern I have. It appears that the basis to use these in MSnS is there but it's alpha code. That's the part I think looks fun. (OK i'm sick).

There is an engine oil temp sensor in the rear (?) rocker box that serves as engine temp/warmup indicator. No knock sense on the Marelli. Not sure for VDO or Delphi. However Knock sensors are fairly engine specific. It might serve to avoid one initially and get everything tuned by hand first. I have seen lots of traffic on threads about wierdness inserted by the "wrong" knock sensor messing with timing and early setup.

What sort of Bike/Engine are you building? Sequential or Batch Injection?
The Injection on my bike is sequential (Squirts with the Spark) but it's Alfa-N so no O2 sensor and no MAF. uS has a Hybrid Alfa-n mode that looks promising with "lumpy" intake vacuumn but an added O2.

Not to bash the uS but... simply grafting a complete HD system on and finding proper editing software, may be the most direct route if your engine isn't too "non Standard".

Stock modern gas tanks have the road worthy efi stuff built in at the factory so you done have to mess with it. 2 Bar pressure for marelli, 3 Bar for Delphi. I'm a safety nut and dont like flaming gasoline in my crotch (but then who does?) so if it was me I'd just swap the tank wholesale for one that had the "right" stuff.

Good Luck. I look forward to reading of your success.

[newtyres1]

Now that the code and docs have been released for uS I guess "we" need to work out how we are going to interface the H-D engine to the tach inputs of uS. uS has 2 independent ignition channels to run odd-fire, and requires a sensor (hall or VR) for each channel. One way I can see to do that is with a single lobe or trigger on the camshaft with 2 sensors placed 180 plus or minus 22.5* apart. (22.5x2=45*, the odd bit of the firing). The other way would be to use the stock sensor and only 2 of the original 6 teeth (found on a Buell/Sportster rotor cup) and a 2nd trigger with some simple logic to direct the stock sensor output to the correct input channel of the uS. If the Buell/Sportster rotor cup fits the big twins and the "points" mounting plate is the same size for both engines, then one solution could be used for all H-D's.

Any thoughts, suggestions?

Ian.
(I have a Buell with MSnS-E fuel only, would like to do ignition control as well with uS/MS2.)

[Dr.Hess]

Hey Guys,
My next MS project (after the Truck) is going to be my wife's 1987 883. I, too, eagerly await the uS. I bought a Buell intake manifold with injectors, throttle body and fuel pump for $100 shipped off a guy on eBay. I'm thinking of just using the coil negative for a trigger and firing in batch. I mean, the injectors are right next to each other anyway. I'll run squirt-n-spark-extra code (thanks, Ken). I'm going to put a bigger tank on it hopefully with a gas guage in it and I plan on running the fuel from the petcock to the pump mounted under the seat with the return line spliced back in to the input side of the fuel pump. My other choice would be to fab up something to replace the petcock with a pickup and a return pipe in it.
Lets make this THE HARLEY SQUIRT thread.

[dakineng]

Here's another ME TOO!

I just got mu MicroSquirt and want to run it fuel only.
Here's my components;

1991 883/1200 cc conversion
Buell downdraft EFI manifold and injectors, rail (donor) and TPS
Stock HD intank fuel pump
Power Arc optical trigger, single fire w/multiple spark discharge ignition
LC-1 wideband O2
Intake air temp
3 bar MAP
and a turbo with intercooler.

Now for the questions..
Can I connect OptoIN 1 and 2 (respectively) to the negative side of the coils and expect Sequential Injection to work?

Will the MSD affect the injection?

Sam Dakin
#6062

[Matt Cramer]

There's only one optoisolated input so you can't wire both sides to the coils. Wiring to the sensors may work though.

[dakineng]

Matt,
After reading my post and another trip thru the books; whups.
I was dreaming of individual spark triggers tripping individual injectors.
I'm back to tach signal and it's relationship to TDC, odd fire and crossed fingers.

Thanks,
Sam

[dakineng]

OK, the tach pulse is @ TDC on the front cylinder.
Injector offset times that injector, but where is the offset for the rear cylinder injector?

I hope this is a more intelligent question this time,
Sam