[SOLVED] Tach input OK but IGN1 not firing /

[eekoog]

Hi all,

I'am microsquirting my GSXR 1100 (fuel + spark). I made myself a 36-1 wheel with the original VR sensor. It works OK : when i'm cranking i can read a steady 240 rpm. I red and red again and again the manual but i don't seem to get it right apparently (i am french so maybe i missed something).

There are no sparks at all. Before, i was with the MS extra code (from the previous owner) and i had spark on the IGN 2 channel only. Since i don't know much of MS extra i went back to B&G 2.89 version of microsquirt. And now, no spark at all. I opened my microsquirt case, and there are no sign of fried components, especially the coils drivers.

I am driving coils directly, i am sure my coils and spark plugs work (i tested it on another bike). So after checking and checking again my wiring, i am asking you people what i could have done wrong ?!

EDIT : i changed the dual spark setting from "no dual spark" to "Single crank wheel" and now IGN2 is firing, but still nothing on IGN1.

I give you guys my msq file. Since the hardware is ok, i'm sure one expert look at the MSQ file will notice the problem.

Cheers

Maxime

[eekoog]

I red a bit on the forum (acutally i red every thread that contained the word IGN1), and found that when you use the Dual Spark feature, you must set the Trigger Offset negative. So that's what i did, trigger offset at -10 and Delay Teeth at 8 instead of 7.

But nothing changed, still nothing on IGN1. I also tried to change the Cranking trigger, same thing.

Please guys, help me ! This must only be a wrong setting somewhere, i know i'am 2 clicks away from firing the "buddy" !!

Thank you

Cheers

Maxime

[Matt Cramer]

Are the coils logic level or driven from the BIP373s?

[grippo]

I ran your msq on the test bench and it seems to work. Basically this engine appears to act like an even fire 2 cylinder. Ign 1 and Ign 2 spark simultaneously every 360 deg. Ign1 and 2 each needs to be connected to a dual spark coil, so Ign1 fires cyl 1 and cyl 3, and ign2 fires cyl 2 and 4, and they all fire together. Although skip teeth is 180 deg, the odd angle offset is 180 deg, and since it is wasted, you get 4 firings at one time, then 360 deg later you bget another 4 simultaneous firings. Its the same setup for a wasted 2 cylinder even fire, except you don't need dual spark coils. At least that is what I see on the scope. If your engine is not supposed to work like this, then the configuration is probably what is wrong.

If the configuration I described is what you want, then I would do the following:
1. remove the injector connectors so you don't flood the engine
2. set crank trigger to "calculated" because trigger rise doesn't always work with trigger rise, although it does give 2 sparks in your case, but they are not simultaneous.
3. crank the engine and check for spark - you should see a spark on each cylinder. If you had a test light you could test IGN1 and 2 directly and they should both charge and spark. If you don't, and it sounds like you have done this and don't see any spark, then I don't think it is a configuration problem. But if you are assuming that because it doesn't fire there is no spark, that may not be the case, there may be spark at the wrong time.
4. If you don't see spark, then make a short datalog of your cranking.

[eekoog]

Are the coils logic level or driven from the BIP373s?

I don't understand what is logic level. The coils are the original coils from the engine, back in 1988, and working with a CDI originally. Basically they are two wires rolled around each other (the primary and secondary). What is BIP373 ? My coils are directly driven from the microsquirt, in wasted spark.

I ran your msq on the test bench and it seems to work. Basically this engine appears to act like an even fire 2 cylinder. Ign 1 and Ign 2 spark simultaneously every 360 deg. Ign1 and 2 each needs to be connected to a dual spark coil, so Ign1 fires cyl 1 and cyl 3, and ign2 fires cyl 2 and 4, and they all fire together. Although skip teeth is 180 deg, the odd angle offset is 180 deg, and since it is wasted, you get 4 firings at one time, then 360 deg later you bget another 4 simultaneous firings. Its the same setup for a wasted 2 cylinder even fire, except you don't need dual spark coils. At least that is what I see on the scope. If your engine is not supposed to work like this, then the configuration is probably what is wrong.

If the configuration I described is what you want, then I would do the following:
1. remove the injector connectors so you don't flood the engine
2. set crank trigger to "calculated" because trigger rise doesn't always work with trigger rise, although it does give 2 sparks in your case, but they are not simultaneous.
3. crank the engine and check for spark - you should see a spark on each cylinder. If you had a test light you could test IGN1 and 2 directly and they should both charge and spark. If you don't, and it sounds like you have done this and don't see any spark, then I don't think it is a configuration problem. But if you are assuming that because it doesn't fire there is no spark, that may not be the case, there may be spark at the wrong time.
4. If you don't see spark, then make a short datalog of your cranking.

I'm sorry i haven't been precise enough on my configuration : each coil has two outputs. Coil 1 for the cylinders 1 and 4, and coil 2 for the cylinders 2 and 3. Regarding the crankshaft configuration, the pistons 1 and 4 are at the same height. Same for the pistons 2 and 3. Also 1and 4 are at 180° from the 2 and 3 (like the most of 4 cylinders engine actually).

As for the ignition sequence : originally, the 1 and 4 have spark at the same time every 360° when they are at TDC (minus the advance). Same for the 2 and 3. But spark for 1 and 4 is offseted of 180° from the spark of 2 and 3. I hope you're still with me Again, like most 4 cylinder engines (at least on bikes which haven't COP).

So this isn't 4 firings at one time, it's only two at one time. IGN2 must fire 180° after IGN1, then 180 ° then IGN1 again and so on.

About the injectors, i haven't wired my fuel pump yet, since i wanted to be sure to have spark, in order to avoid flooding the engine. Injectors are also disconnected, don't wanna fry them. And to check the spark, i took the sparkplugs off the cylinder then grounded them then crank. This is how i see if there is spark.

So maybe now you see a mistake in my configuration, i hope.

By the way, about the hardware, is it normal that on the pins near the coil drivers heat sinks, i have one jumper connecting two pins, and the other only plugged to one pin ? Well i guess i'll put a photo, it'll be easier to understand.

Thank you very much for helping me, really.

Cheers

Maxime

[dontz125]

Logic output is a 5v low-power signal sent to a 'smart' coil that has its own built-in ignitor; if you are using the stock GSXR coils, this doesn't apply. The BIP373 is the high-power ignition transistor that turns the coils on and off, firing the spark plugs.

I think you want to use Dual SPark option 3a:

Code: Select all

3. M-N Crank Wheel w/ No Cam Synch
  a. M-N crank wheel	Single crank wheel input	M (≠0)	N (≠0)	Input 1	n/a	Output 1/2 alternate	

[eekoog]

Logic output is a 5v low-power signal sent to a 'smart' coil that has its own built-in ignitor; if you are using the stock GSXR coils, this doesn't apply. The BIP373 is the high-power ignition transistor that turns the coils on and off, firing the spark plugs.

I think you want to use Dual SPark option 3a:

Code: Select all

3. M-N Crank Wheel w/ No Cam Synch
  a. M-N crank wheel	Single crank wheel input	M (≠0)	N (≠0)	Input 1	n/a	Output 1/2 alternate	

Well i think my coils are everything but smart !! Like i said, it's only two copper wires rolled together, old school

About my hardware, here are the jumpers i am talking about, in case the previous owner had plugged them wrong :

[dontz125]

Actually - that second jumper is your problem right there. The jumper 'cap' is only on 1 pin, when it should be joining 2 pins together; the path for that circuit is broken! Make sure both jumpers are on pins 1 & 2, and see what that does for your spark.

[eekoog]

Hello dontz, are you sure about the jumpers ? Cause i really dont want to fry anything...

[dontz125]

The jumper goes across pins 1-2 for on-board coil driver; across pins 2-3 for 'logic' signal for coils with built-in ignitor. Pin 2 is the signal from the processor; pin 1 leads to the IGBT, while pin 3 just leads to the outdoors.