A few pictures of a dual fuel setup

Mercmad · Post by **Mercmad** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:39 pm

LP gas injection is virtually unknown here in Australia* so i will google AG and see what turns up.
The major manufacturers have LP gas options but most are the old style

flow valve setups.
The AG injectors look like a smaller set up than the Kiehin injector and won't look out of place on the BIG project,A Mercedes M-100 6.3....

mitsuko · Post by **mitsuko** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:29 pm

Keihins are of a better quality , but cost at least twice as much .
Keihins are low impedance . 1,2 Ohm I believe .

AG's come in three different sizes . 4.. 5 and 6 mm bore .
Static flow of 1,3 or 1,74 or 2,35 g/s .
Injectors are high impedance

If you can't source them , contact me , and I'll see what I can do .

Patrick

Big Creek · Post by **Big Creek** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:30 pm

Very interesting! Gasoline costs about twice what propane cost here in the States. I can see another conversion craze to LP if the ratio stays the same by next summer. I remember when everybody was converting their carburated trucks back in the 70's. Gonna be a little harder now with emmission regulations though.

Todd

Mercmad · Post by **Mercmad** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:43 pm

Propane should be even cheaper still here because the stuff is pulled from earth about 400kms from my home!!.But as per usual when the price goes up,the oil companies claim it is because of demand in the northern hemishere!!!.
My major Project,(of which i actually have to start on

) is a Mercedes 300SEl 6.3 with a huge 125liter gasoine tank,so you can see i'm very interested in the propane deal!!!.
At present the engine has MFI (bosche) which although it works great ,is extremely expensive to repair(injectors cost $4000 each!)

birdmanmt · Post by **birdmanmt** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:29 am

efahl wrote:Pat,

Is that the stock manifold on that engine? I've never seen a 2-piece one before...

Eric

eric, that intake mani is very common. any 80 or 90 audi with a 10v non-turbo has it, as well as any NA 5cyl t44 newer than 88.

I'm in the process of helping a friend do MSnS on his 80 with this setup. let's just say it was less than fun getting the injectors to work!

Cheers
jeff

Post by **efahl** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:00 pm

birdmanmt wrote: with a 10v non-turbo has it

Ah, that's the problem.

birdmanmt · Post by **birdmanmt** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:58 am

efahl wrote:
birdmanmt wrote: with a 10v non-turbo has it
Ah, that's the problem.

exactly!

daniel505gti · Post by **daniel505gti** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:27 pm

Hi I am another Australian lpg user with a turbo.
I am currently piecing the install for a mega squirt 2 v3 on a 2 lt turbo lpg and a v.6 2.8 lt twin turbo.
So I am wondering how much hp can each injector drive?
Also I know that the Prins vsi system used fuel vapour filters, temp sensors and pressure sensors, Are you using something similar with your ag injectors?.

I have found someone in Perth that can supply the Prins / Keihn injectors but he is proving to be very difficult to get a hold of.
I was looking at this vaporizer http://www.teleflexgfi.com/cng_lpg_vaporizer.php
It looks very promising if limited to 250 hp ..
I also need vaporisers that can supply quite a lot of hp. If they can't deliver more than 250 hp each I will have to split up the injection banks on my v.6 and run 2 injectors a cylinder if the injector hp is not sufficient.

Any comments on this?. And I am awaiting your results eagerly

. Good luck.

mitsuko · Post by **mitsuko** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:07 am

The AG vaporiser I'm using has an integrated pressure sensor , and I've put a temp sensor on my lpg fuel rail .
http://www.teleflexgfi.com/lpg_singlest ... uriser.php
But thats it . I'm not using the sensors yet .
I was kinda hoping Phil would be interested in doing some code mods
to make a real lpg controller . But apparantly he's not .
And i don't have the time nor the skills to start coding .
I do have the algortihms for the corrections on both temperature and pressure .

The car runs very good without them though .
Only in the morning with a cold start she runs way to rich .
Stumbles , bucks etc . This only lasts a few minutes .

The HP capacity of each injector is a bit of a guess .
I have a chart for the three different types of AG injectors .
I believe Prins also lists figures of injector capacity on their site .

I don't like the vaporiser you've listed .
This is strictly a gut feeling , don't have any experiance with it .
Might as well be an excellent choice . I don't know .
But I can recomend this one
http://www.teleflexgfi.com/lpg_2stage_vapouriser.php
This used to be a necam koltec device , and Necam - first necamcentury , then necamkoltec - has always had a very good reputation .
I have one of those vaporisers , wich I intend to use on my audi 20V .
Someday ...

If you need more then one vaporiser to feed your engine , don't split injector banks . Two vaporiser will never deliver exactly thesame pressure . Put them in parallel .
Tie vaporiser 1 to one end of the fuel rail , and tie the output of vaporiser nr2 to the other end .

As for injectors , keihin Yellow dots are the biggest available .
Good for abt 300Hp on a five cyl turbo engine . Give or take a few HP .

Speaking of Keihins .
These came in the mail yesterday ( picture )
At last , after more then a year of searching and advertising , I found
four orange dot injectors .
Now I only need one more , and we're in business .

Feel free to ask more questions .
I have some knowledge about lpg , and I love to talk about it .

Pat

jsmcortina · Post by **jsmcortina** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:09 pm

mitsuko wrote:I was kinda hoping Phil would be interested in doing some code mods
to make a real lpg controller . But apparantly he's not .

Just change your name to Andy and it might get done ?!?!?

But seriously, please remind us what coding you were after and I'll have a ponder.
A friend of mine (a different Phil) is talking about LPG, although he does talk a lot, so it might benefit him in the next century too.

cheers

James