Engine bit code 3

Kirk Carleton · Post by **Kirk Carleton** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:26 pm

1983 VW GTI 1.8l stock
MS1 V2.2 code 3.0 flyback board installed
19.3 Lbs./hr low impedence injectors

I have read through the manuals and lots of documentation on this site and have been trying to get a start for about 5 days. Please see previoous posting for frther information http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=14522

I do not get a engine bit dode 2 when cranking - it imediatly goes to code 3 which is crank and run and the PW is at run, so I do not get cranking pulses. This has been consistant on data logs trying different start pulse and ASE.

I am considering re loading the code as it seems that the crank threshold may be higher than the run threshold. I have used ET to load .inc files for the CLT and MAT sensors I used, it worked fine and temps are accurate. Is it possible that ET may have corrupted part of the code to cause this problem???

Attached is most recent atempt and .msq

I would appreciate some advise before I attempt to re load the code.

Thanks
Kirk

renns · Post by **renns** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

Kirk,

I just tested the V3.0 code, and both the crank and run bits are high when cranking, resulting in a bit code of three. Your datalog shows the same result, so it's working normally in that respect.

As for cranking pulse width, you have the following settings in your .msq:

-40F = 10ms
170F = 2ms

Your datalog shows a temperature of 23F, which results in an interpolated cranking pulse width of (170-23)/(170-(-40))*(10-2)+2 = 7.6ms. Your datalog shows a pulse width value of 7.6ms, so it appears to be working fine in that respect as well.

To verify that the 7.6ms pw is definitely from the cranking settings, and not VE table, take a look at 25.771 seconds in the datalog where we find Gve = 59, Gammae=163. Calculated pulse width from the VE table = 5.9*1.63 + injector opening time. From your .msq we have iot of 1.0ms, so pulse width should be about 10.6ms if coming from VE table.

It looks like all is working as intended. Is it possible you were changing only priming pulse and ase, and not the cranking pw values during your testing? Try bumping those cranking pw up a bit, and post another datalog and .msq if problems continue.

Roger.

Kirk Carleton · Post by **Kirk Carleton** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:55 am

Roger

Thanks for the reply, I will try some larger crank pulses and let you know

Thanks
Kirk

Kirk Carleton · Post by **Kirk Carleton** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:53 pm

Roger

To answer your last quetion I have always left the prime pulse at 2.0ms and I have been adjusting the -40 and the 170 start pulses.

Here is the sequence of increases I have tried

-40 170 ASE PWM curr limit
20051231-1 2.4 12 20% - 250 30%
20051231-2 2.8 14 20% - 250 30%
20051231-3 3.2 16 20% - 250 30%
-4 3.2 16 25% - 250 30%
-5 3.2 16 25% - 250 40%
-6 4.0 20 25% - 250 60%
-7 4.0 20 30% - 250 60%

The resulsts are about the same the car fires almost immediatly after hitting the key and when if flips to run, ase and wue it dies. That is why I tried increasing the PWM current limit, I thought possibly after comning off cranking and PWM being envoked that the injector where not opening. But it did not make any difference. It seems that the car will fire on the first atempt of each of these configuations but on the second atempt usually it woun't even fire. Even after the seventh run the plugs are not wet.
I have new plugs, wires cap and rotor and am getting good spark. When putting the injector and rail in I did crank the engine over to verify that the injectors were squirting, but I think I may have to do this again to be sure.

Any other suggessions you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Kirk

Kirk Carleton · Post by **Kirk Carleton** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:02 pm

Roger

The table of my changes got scrambled please see the attached Word document
also have zip file with other .msq and data logs
Kirk

renns · Post by **renns** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:58 pm

Sounds to me like you have two different problems. 1.) Incorrect ASE/warmup values to keep the engine running after it first fires. This could also be related to PWM settings, although you've tested some high values already. 2.) Re-start attempts show proper pulse width is being reported, but yet the plugs are dry... Have you verified fuel pressure during cranking? Is the fuel pump perhaps wired to the 'run' position of your ignition switch rather than 'run' and 'crank'?

That's all for now. Must watch the ball drop...

Kirk Carleton · Post by **Kirk Carleton** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:36 am

Roger

I have a gauge plumbed into the fuel rail and the pump runs through out cranking and the system maintains pressure. All the parts (sensors, injectors, regulator) have been salvaged from a Dodge 3.0 l V6 the regulator runs at about 37psi. I tested the injectors with air individually before installing and when hooked up to the rail the prime and crank pulses did produce fuel from all four injectors.
I found the section of the assembly manual a little confusing about wire sizes - I have run 18 ga on pins 32, 33, 34, and 35 the total run of wire from MS to injectors would be under 60". I felt this was adequate as a single 18 ga is rated for 6-10 amps and each bank is run on a 10 amp fuse.

Thanks again for the help Happy New Year
Kirk

Kirk Carleton · Post by **Kirk Carleton** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:14 pm

Roger

I have removed the injectors from the engine so I can see if they are delivering fuel, they are but I really do not have anything to compare to, but it doesn't seem to be much. I remove the electrical connectors from the injectors and measured voltage and I am only getting 3.9 v. I set the PWM to 100% and time to 25.5 ms and no change in voltage, still 3.9. There is a full 12 v at the injector from the relay board and the resistance from the injectors back to pins 32, 33, 34, and 35 are 0.4 ohms.
I've checked all the components in the flyback board and eveything looks good. On the flyback board I did substitute the D100 and D103 with a 1N5401 because I could not find any FR302DICT-ND. I'v reviewed the spec sheets on both diodes and there appears to be only minor diferences.

Is there anything more I should check??

Thanks
Kirk

renns · Post by **renns** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:42 am

Kirk Carleton wrote: I have removed the injectors from the engine so I can see if they are delivering fuel, they are but I really do not have anything to compare to, but it doesn't seem to be much. I remove the electrical connectors from the injectors and measured voltage and I am only getting 3.9 v. I set the PWM to 100% and time to 25.5 ms and no change in voltage, still 3.9.

If you have access to a scope, try that to verify the actual voltage applied during the pulse. I'm not sure what a typical multimeter would read when measuring a PWM stream.

If it's still apart, try making large changes in cranking pulse width, to see if a visible difference in actual injector pulse can be seen. Be safe, and keep an extinguisher or two handy!

There is a full 12 v at the injector from the relay board and the resistance from the injectors back to pins 32, 33, 34, and 35 are 0.4 ohms.
I've checked all the components in the flyback board and eveything looks good. On the flyback board I did substitute the D100 and D103 with a 1N5401 because I could not find any FR302DICT-ND. I'v reviewed the spec sheets on both diodes and there appears to be only minor diferences.

I've never used the flyback board in my applications, so I can't speak to issues in that area. Did the board pass all build and functional tests?

Is there anything more I should check??

The pwm settings listed in the manual here differ a bit from your settings, but your increased pwm% settings should only help the matter.

Roger.

Kirk Carleton · Post by **Kirk Carleton** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:22 pm

Roger

Yesterday as per your suggestion I tried different crank pulses with the injectors out. There didn't seem to be much difference, but I also noticed this time that two of the injectors were dripping when the system was off. I found another set of injectors that do not drip but also do not seem to inject much fuel. After several failed attempts with differnt setting last night, it seemed that these injectors also would not deliver enough fuel to fire the engine.
This morning I decided to recheck the board for any defect and recheck it with the stim and meter and test various circuits - everything check fine. I was able to borrow a scope today. With the car half full of lap top, scope and 30 feet of test leads I hit the key and it started right off. The .msq I had opened was one set with the PWM at 100% and 25.4 ms and crank pulse at 25.5 and 6.0, so I only let it run for a few seconds. After adjusting and readjusting I found it runs best at PWM of 64% and a threshold of 1.1 ms. This seems high considering I have a flyback board but at least at idle the injectors do not seem to be hot and it runs. the R10 does run hot even though it has been incresed to 1K ohm.
Tomorrow I will try another cold start and continue following the tuning manual. I am sending the last data log and the .msq

Should I be conserned with a PWM of 64%?

Thanks
Kirk