Started!! Tons of questions.

yarin · Post by **yarin** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:27 pm

just wanted to post an update...

i found a stuck injector today. Really a pain in the bum, i sent all four injectors out to have them cleaned and flow checked. I have a funny feeling this injector has been open from the first time I cranked it.

It's a barb style injector, so i just pulled it out of the intake manifold and stuck it in a bottle. Ran the fuel pump and it just squirts tons of nonstop fuel out. NOT GOOD!! No wonder my exhaust was pouring out gas and the oil stunk of gas.

So anyway.. I should have a new injector by Wednesday. However earlier today I got it to idle rather nicely, even on 3 cylinders. hehe. I redid the VE table using someone else's. OF course my WBO2 readings were still pig rich. I hope I didn't harm the engine. The engine just idled like this for maybe 5-6 mins total, didnt put any load on it.

3liter914-6 · Post by **3liter914-6** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:05 am

yarin wrote: Throttle plate to bore is ok. There are two holes in the plate from the factory, I might have to plug those up. There is a idle air bypass screw, its set to zilch.

You shouldn't have to plug anything in the TB plate. I initally had high idle in my MS'd 914 2.0, and tracked it down to the cold start injector, which I forgot to cap off. After capping that off, and replacing the boots on the intake runners, TB and intake gaskets, I get a nice idle at 800-1000 when fully warmed up. I've left the AAR disconnected as well.

3liter914-6 · Post by **3liter914-6** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:07 am

I had a tough time finding vacuum caps for all the connectors I had to block off for my install, I think the biggest vacuum caps I could find were 3/8"? I ended up using some of the larger (12MM) lines filled with silicone to make a cap. Recently, while working on another project, I came across blockoff caps for bypassing the heater core. These come in larger sizes, 3/8,1/2,5/8,3/4) which should do a pretty good job on plugging the rest of the ports.

yarin · Post by **yarin** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:48 pm

3liter914-6 wrote:I had a tough time finding vacuum caps for all the connectors I had to block off for my install, I think the biggest vacuum caps I could find were 3/8"? I ended up using some of the larger (12MM) lines filled with silicone to make a cap. Recently, while working on another project, I came across blockoff caps for bypassing the heater core. These come in larger sizes, 3/8,1/2,5/8,3/4) which should do a pretty good job on plugging the rest of the ports.

I have everything capped off and blocked off. I loaded a new VE table in from another 914 user and the idle dropped a bunch. I found out one of my injectors is stuck open, got a new one on the way. Then i can really start to tune a proprely injected engine. I machined a nice block off plate for the cold start injector. Here are a few pics i posted in a thread from a few weeks ago: http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?a ... 1384017637

yarin · Post by **yarin** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:09 pm

Here are a few pics, not the latest but it gives you an idea of the layout I chose.

yarin · Post by **yarin** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:58 pm

Ran the engine again some more today. I can't get the idle to drop at all. not below 2400rpm. AFR is unstable as well, do i need to smooth it out?

i can tell my accel enrichment is set too high. my LC-1 is set to 0-1V with a 470ohm resistor in series with the input.

yarin · Post by **yarin** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:12 pm

Finally got it to idle around 1700rpm after plugging the hole in the throttle plate. The plate looks like it seals around the ID of the throttle body perfectly. I'm not sure where air could be sneaking in to give me such a high idle. I've got idle dialed in ok, not great.

I think my battery or alternator might be shot. I can't start the car without a jump from a battery charger. When its running i see about 10.2V, not enough for the LC-1 WBO2. i'll take the battery to the auto parts store and have em check it out.

gundesen · Post by **gundesen** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:18 pm

Hi Yarin, any resolution to your high idle and tuning issues? I am starting to get my 2.0l Vanagon dialed in, fuel only. I started with a .msq file from
CantConfirmOrDeny in the Porsche success tories forum. I can only get idle to be around 1700, and only get it running when I advance the timing way over. I was using PWM on low impedance injectors, but have now added resistors so I can take PWM right out of this experiment. The 914 .msq had req. fuel set at 9.5 whereas I calculated 17.8 for my Bosch (stock) 185cc/min injectors. Yet it at least ran at the 9.5 setting, wouldn't with my first try at 17.8 and MT calculated default VE table. Lots of mysteries...

Anyway, since I recognized the high idle issue just though I'd see if there might be a common resolution. Thx.

yarin · Post by **yarin** » Fri May 12, 2006 9:25 pm

gundesen wrote:Hi Yarin, any resolution to your high idle and tuning issues? I am starting to get my 2.0l Vanagon dialed in, fuel only. I started with a .msq file from
CantConfirmOrDeny in the Porsche success tories forum. I can only get idle to be around 1700, and only get it running when I advance the timing way over. I was using PWM on low impedance injectors, but have now added resistors so I can take PWM right out of this experiment. The 914 .msq had req. fuel set at 9.5 whereas I calculated 17.8 for my Bosch (stock) 185cc/min injectors. Yet it at least ran at the 9.5 setting, wouldn't with my first try at 17.8 and MT calculated default VE table. Lots of mysteries...

Anyway, since I recognized the high idle issue just though I'd see if there might be a common resolution. Thx.

How much vacuum are you pulling? Are you running a WBO2? You really need a wideband sensor to tune anything out. I would be totally dead inthe water without one. Is your idle screw totally in? Perhaps you have an air leak? Reqfuel of ~9 is what you should need. You can use alternating(4 inh/cycle) or simulatenous (2 inj/cycle). Once the engine is running and warmed up play with the reqfuel then tune the VE table. Get idle right first, make sure injector characteristics are correct giving you a stable consistent idle first, then tune VE at higher rpms.

I have issues with a suspect bad injector driver, perhaps an air leak, etc etc.. the trick i use to check ignition and severe AFR conditions is throw a timing light on each spark plug. see if it flashes. running excessively rich will cause fouling and you wont get consistent firing.

good luck.

gundesen · Post by **gundesen** » Sat May 13, 2006 12:37 pm

Thanks, I must bemissing something on the req_fuel. I have 185cc/min injectors, 1970cc engine, 4 cylinders, AFR=14.7 That all adds up to 17.8 for req_fuel using the built in calculator, or the web calculator. Where does 9 come from??

I have never got great vac at idle (not a stock cam) but I have scoured for leaks to no avail. I couls idle prior to megasquirt going in. NBO2 sensor only, but it seems to be giving a reasonable reading. I just took apart the distributor and re-lubed and looked for issues. All looks good there. Perhaps the hydraulic lifters are mucking with valve timing. I am going to back them out to zero lash to assure I get full valve closure all around.

I'll be sure to check for all plugs firing.
I have now taken the 9.50 VE table and adjusted it downward throughout to compensate for my 17.8 req_fuel. I'll see if I get it to run there.

Thanks for the suggestions.

GG