Comments on the State of the Union MicroSquirt info

[Bernard Fife]

Or am I mistaken and it's just a quick and cheap guinea pig to be punted to see where it lands?

PSIG,

I think that statement is an insult to everyone who has worked hard on developing MegaSquirt (and MicroSquirt) for quite a long time, and a denigration of Bruce and Al's efforts. As always, these decisions are made by those doing the work, based on a large number of unavoidable compromises.

Lance.

[Bruce Bowling]

Perhaps Skiericski misunderstood as I'm not looking for a 100% optimized version in the never-ending quest - just responding to the majority of potential users and installs as read from this list. My question still stands as a response to the call for more VB921 outputs and reliable internal MAP as basic requirements to a basic system package.

The uS unit has 2 VR imputs and 2 coil drivers, to support small-cylinder count engines with limited space for the current MS.

Although there is space in the case for a MAP sensor, there is no more real estate left on the board, even for a SMD MAP sensor, this was chewed up with the second VB921 nad VR input circuit. Mounting on the bottom is very difficult due to the density of vias on the board. Adding a header for another boards is a possibility, but signal routing is a nightmare with this board size and would probably require a 5 layer board, which starts increasing PCB cost.

And - there are people waiting for this for MAF-controlled throttle body applications who will not use a MAP sensor. Same goes with strict alpha-N.

Now, there is nothing to say that an internal MAP sensor may be in a future revision of uS. But the first incarnation will require external sensor.

I do recall when we fist introduced MS that there was a lot of concern that the setup used an internal MAP sensor, things like " what happens if it fails", etc., etc. Very few ECUs used internal MAP sensors (ones like Lucas had them) especially aftermarket units.

Or am I mistaken and it's just a quick and cheap guinea pig to be punted to see where it lands?

There's nothing quick and/or cheap about rolling out a new board design, trust me...

Microsquirt has a certain set of features. If you absolutely, gotta, must, have an internal MAP sensor or you absolutely, cannot, at all. get your install to work without an internal MAP sensor, then either add it - or do not use MicroSquirt.

- Bruce

[tsupra]

Yes, the barometer can be connected to the spare ADC, and the code already supports baro correction from this input.

- Bruce

sweet!!!!! so which pin does the second ignition trigger use? i'm presuming that the second vr sensor input is on 30 and 31.

[Laverda_steve]

Hi All,

I read here with great interest that the μS will now come with two ignition triggers / outputs. That covers a large proportion of customers, and will cover my triples with a 180 degree crank, but my first project will be to one of the 120 degree (even fire) triples.

Is this going to be possible? Or is it easier to just run the μS for fuel and run a proprietary ignition box (seems a shame).

Thanks in advance,
EFI newbie
Steve

[78Spit1500Fed]

Hi All,

I read here with great interest that the μS will now come with two ignition triggers / outputs. That covers a large proportion of customers, and will cover my triples with a 180 degree crank, but my first project will be to one of the 120 degree (even fire) triples.

Is this going to be possible? Or is it easier to just run the μS for fuel and run a proprietary ignition box (seems a shame).

Thanks in advance,
EFI newbie
Steve

There aren't three ignition drivers, so Coil On Plug is out of the question. With two ignition drivers in a waste spark setup, you would need two cylinders to fire at the same time; possible with your 180° crank, not 120° unfortunately.

Your best MegaSquirt-controlled bet at this point is to use an EDIS-6 module and find a way to get a 36-1 trigger on your crank. Unless you can think of another way to distribute spark, I'm afraid you're stuck using a proprietary ignition box.

Are you talking about a Triumph Speed Tripple? I didn't know they had a even-fire crank... is it aftermarket?

-Brian

[jsmcortina]

I know I've said this before but got no responses. There is LOTS of room in the box above the board - as small as it is...

How do you know how much room there is? Have you ever seen a MicroSquirt? Have you held one in your hand, measured the clearance between the board and the case?

All except the final comment that PSIG made were sound.

I _have_ held a Microsquirt and can testify that there is physical space in the case to mount more stuff. But, this was the first revision single channel version. Bruce gave us the answer though - there isn't board space to fit the map sensor.

Within reason I too advocate the "Going for gold" principle. B&G have taken this on board by listening to potential customers and adding the second VR and IGBT.

James

[Laverda_steve]

[quote="78Spit1500Fed"]
There aren't three ignition drivers, so Coil On Plug is out of the question. With two ignition drivers in a waste spark setup, you would need two cylinders to fire at the same time; possible with your 180° crank, not 120° unfortunately.
Your best MegaSquirt-controlled bet at this point is to use an EDIS-6 module and find a way to get a 36-1 trigger on your crank. Unless you can think of another way to distribute spark, I'm afraid you're stuck using a proprietary ignition box.
Are you talking about a Triumph Speed Tripple? I didn't know they had a even-fire crank... is it aftermarket?
-Brian[/quote]

Hi Brian,
Any kind of crank trigger plate is no problem for me to make, as I am a machinist and even have occasional access to all manner of CNC gear including an EDM "wire cutter" - 463 tooth trigger plate? No worries! So I'll have to decode all this stuff about the automotive ignition drivers which at present is all gobbledegook to me. So with an EDIS-6 and appropriate cleverness I'll be able to run three individaul coils from the MS?

This will be an initiation of fire for me on the electronics side of things, but will hopefully be fun and interesting, if in doubt I have some electronics techs at work here (university), and hopefully help via these forums.

First thing though is to adapt the throttle bodies I picked up (GSXR1000) and get some of the other hardware sorted. At my rate, that'll take a few months easy.

The bikes are all Laverda triples, the earlier ones used a 180 deg crank, 120 degree after about 1982. Nobody else ever made a 180 crank triple, hence their amazingly unique sound! All Triumphs (new and old) are 120deg, as are the new range of Benellis.

Cheers
Steve

[racingmini_mtl]

The issue I see with using EDIS on a motorcycle is the EDIS RPM limitation. I don't know what kind of RPMs the Laverda can run but it seems the EDIS cannot go above 8800-9000 RPM (at least for EDIS-4, I don't know about EDIS-6). If that's enough for you then you should be fine.

Jean

[Laverda_steve]

[quote="racingmini_mtl"]The issue I see with using EDIS on a motorcycle is the EDIS RPM limitation. I don't know what kind of RPMs the Laverda can run but it seems the EDIS cannot go above 8800-9000 RPM (at least for EDIS-4, I don't know about EDIS-6). If that's enough for you then you should be fine.
Jean[/quote]

Hi Jean,
Thanks for the info, not a big problem on my old Laverdas, two valves, a square cylinder dimension, and pressed up roller bearing crank mean 8-8500 is their practical uppermost limit. The current digital ignition system available is rev limited at 8350 which suits me fine. So it sounds like it'll be possible then... great... have to get to work on the hardware and do some reading.
Cheers
Steve

[Vanhoe]

In my opinion if you want it ofcourse all the original ECU
in the cars don't have any map sensors inside, sorry the
vauxhall ignition does, but that is only ignition.
Every car has somewhere a map sensor hanging around.
So I don't see the problem here. It is better to have a second
ignition driver to work with a coil pack and simply wire the map
sensor to the MS unit.

Get over it it will work perfect.
Even if you install it with 2 meter of tube and hang it under the dash,

Move on Ivan