Strange Problem. 20k cranking RPM and software issue

[Postman]

Ok. So im running a V1 microsquirt, code version 2.89, on a Honda CRF450X for a formula SAE team. After running the engine on fuel only, i am making the conversion to control ignition. Ive got a 24-2 tooth trigger wheel that is kicking out a nice clean signal as seen with the Trigger Wheel Decoder.

After tossing in my ignition settings I got a cranking RPM of 20K +. (settings are in my attached .msq file) So i looked around on these forums and found out that the trigger wheel settings may be off. Going back to my Advanced Ignition settings I found that the Number of Trigger Teeth had been switched back to 0. So I changed the value from 0 to 24 again, burnt to ECU, rebooted MS, and opened the settings again to see if my changes took. No dice, I still have a 0 in the Number of Trigger Wheel Teeth. As a sanity check, I changed the "Missing Teeth" Bin instead, to see if it would take. Following the same procedure, rebooting the MS and all, the "Missing Teeth Bin" change was sucessfull, but the "Number of Trigger Wheel Teeth" still didnt take!

Im sure the "Number of Trigger wheel Teeth" setting of 0 is the cause of my high cranking RPM problem. but I cant change it! Any ideas? Is this a software issue, or some goofy setting? Thanks for the help, and let me know if there is anyother information I can get that will help

Louis

[grippo]

Go into your msq, using notepad or wordpad, edit the trigger teeth to be 24, save it and load it into the ecu and do a burn. See if that works. You shouldn't have to do that, but if it works my guess is you aren;t tabbing the trigger teeth whenyou enter it. If you are entering a bunch of data, MT won't accept the value until you either tab it or enter another data valuew.

[Postman]

Grippo, I sucessfully solved my issue by downgrading to Code Version 2.886. At that point, my tach signal was roughly 2 times what it should have been. Changing the number of cylinders under the Injector Control page from 1 to 2 solved that issue.

However...I am having more and more strange problems occuring.

1) during cranking, I cannot get Microsquirt's Ignition Advance to match up with the actual spark advance on the engine as seen with a timing light. Example: with 30 degrees Advance dialed up in MS, I am geting roughly 5 degrees with the timing light. One would think that if I advanced Ms's tables from 30 to 35, that my actual timing on the engine would change to 10 degrees advance. Not so. I can make changes in MS's ignition table and not see a similar change on the engine. It seems like this is more than just an offset problem.

2) Periodically, my tach signal starts to drop out. And one or two times today, the tach signal has dropped out completly. Switching the polarity on the VR sensor solves this. Which doesnt seem right.

3) As a sanity check, I dialed up 50 degrees advance in MS, to see what I would read on the engine. With 50 degrees in MS, I get 0 degrees Advance on the engine. 51, 52, 53 all the way up to 58 degrees advance in MS still yeild me about 0 degrees advance on the engine. One I dial up 59, I loose spark all together.

These are all really strange and inconsistant issues. (I have a battery charger on the battery at all times, so i dont think it is a low voltage issue) Ive seen some other Formula SAE teams running singles with Microsquirt sucessfully, so I feel there must be some large glaring issue at hand here. i went ahead and upgraded the code back to v2.89 as you suggested, and tried to change the "Trigger Wheel" teeth bin in the msq file via wordpad. To my suprise, the value of 24 was already in there. Regardless I saved the file under a new name and burnt to the controller....but to no avail, the same I still can't change that bin in version 2.89.

Any other ideas? Im really confued as to what i may be doing wrong here.

[SQLGUY]

One thing I noticed is that you're currently configured for EDIS charging (Base ignition settings). Are you really using EDIS? If so, then you won't have any control over advance. If not, then you probably need to change to standard coil charging.

I had problems with tach signal drop as well using a 36-1 wheel on a Yamaha XJ750. Adjusting the pickup gap and deepening tooth thoughs helpes a bit; replacing the the Microsquirt VR conditioner with an NCV1124 helped a lot (and also, one I did some custom configuration in that circuit) got rid of all high RPM breakup; but the final bit of dropout/resynch didn't go away until I switched to MS2/Extra.

Here's the thread where I discussed the dropout and breakup problems, and the switch to the NCV1124: http://www.microsquirt.com/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=23135

Cheers,
Paul

[Postman]

Thanks for the reply Paul. Ill check that thread out.

I was weary about the EDIS setting instead of the "standard coil Charge" setting. But when I have Standard Coil charge selected, I loose my tach signal completly. Maybe there is another setting that i need to activate in sync with the standard coil charge option?

[Postman]

one more thing, are you driving a coil with microsquirt? I should have mentioned that I am running an MSD LS1 coil, with its own ignition drivers built in.

I was hoping to avoid some of the issues regarding noisy tach signals via the externally driven coil. You mention that running msns extra helped things out a bit...Would I be better off just using a Megasquirt 2 to run this engine? We have one hanging around, and I dont think it would take long to make the switch.

[SQLGUY]

I'm driving two coils direct from the Microsquirt VB921's. My Microsquirt was actually one of the first dozen or so shipped when it was released.

I recently switched from MS-II 2.886 to MS2/Extra 2.1.0 beta (not MSnS). The bike was ridable and performant with MS-II, but at certain temperatures, while idling, I'd see the tach dip to zero every once in a while. This was accompanied by a cough and a change in Trigger +/-. Changing to MS2/Extra got rid of that, but, looking at Al's recent posts, it sounds like they may have also found and fixed that issue in the most recent MS-II code.

The main reason I switched to MS2/Extra, though, was for the closed-loop PWM idle valve control. That works really nicely and was well worth the switch. I have since also tried the EAE (Toyota equivalent of XTau) option in MS2/Extra and am pretty happy with that too.

Cheers,
Paul

[Postman]

Paul, I changed the Ignition setting from EDIS to Standard Coil charging Scheme, and it worked like a charm! Ignition advance is now totally timed with the advance on the engine.

However, Now that I have began tuning, I found a big tachometer problem. At 5500 rpm or so, the tachometer goes nuts. Spiking to 0, and back to 5 grand, and so on and so forth.

ignition fumble 5K.msl

(76.49 KiB) Downloaded 59 times

The attached data log shows where my tach goes wacky. With an oscilliscop in the VR sensor, I saw a nice clean output signal. So as far as I can tell, this seems to be an issue with the microsquirt.

So Paul, is this a similar problem to what you had with your tach signal? Im going to upload MS2/Extra 2.1.0 beta to my microsquirt and see if that helps. But I have a feeling this is a hardware issue.

Thanks,
Louis

[Postman]

and buy the way paul, do i need to install a daughter card in uS in order to upgrade to MS2/extra 2.1.0 beta?

[SQLGUY]

Hi Louis,

This sounds like the standard loss of tach issue that many people have seen with uS. It's covered here: http://www.microsquirt.com/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=23063

If you're not already running the most recent MS-II code, you should probably try that. If you are already running the 2.890 code, then I will be interested to hear whether the MS2/Extra code fixes this. The daughter card is only needed when upgrading MS-I to MS-II. For uS, the correct processor is already in there.

If none of the newer code fixes it, then you may need to look at removing C30 as in the link I attached. I'd try the code first, though.

Cheers,
Paul